Hi 2 All ,

Renting lists as Charon rightly points out , is a flukey area and one which risks both compromising the brand and alienating potential consumers if the execution is not perfect . List rental is also a dangerous way to begin a long -term,customer relationship strategy , unless of course the brand is simply looking for a swift turnaround .

The key to effective 1-1 marketing is threefold :provide sufficient inducements for people to respond , build on that success by continually learning more about that customer and then create increasingly valued and individualised communications. It's within this process that promotional techniques re-enter as powerful incentive tools.

Let's say you launch an exciting giveaway on your site that causes people to register (a good Instant -Win game commonly delivers 30%+opt-in , far beyond results delivered using rented lists)Right away you have a list of people who are not only motivated to come to your site , but are also interested enough to make themselves known to the brand through registration .

Each time that consumer interacts with the brand , additional data can be gleaned relative to product usage and a longer lasting relationship cultivated.

List rental uses a scatter gun approach , throw the brand message at a group , however well defined and yield as many customers as possible .Interactive promotion, by contrast is a high powered rifle ,able to target and actively engage consumers .

Instant Wins, Collect and Wins , Trivia, loyalty programs, tell-a-friend and other promotional tools can be used to incentivise trial purchase ,conduct research , sell product , stimulate repeat site visits, almost any marketing goal and none of this is conducted by leveraging on permission given elsewhere and then "rented" away.

Interactive promotions are part of the evolution sweeping the online world as they can convince consumers to reach out for brand dialogue , something marketeers have never before enjoyed.

Trust this will spark some spirited debate :-)

Paul Shalet

Managing Director , ePrize.

On 14:45:14 6 July 2004 charonw wrote:

Hi All

Ashley asked me to post something about this, as it seems finding good third party lists can be a problem.

We’re an online marketing agency, and we also source 3rd party lists for clients. We’ve been doing it now for about 2 years so have built up a list of reputable vendors and only supply opt-in or permission-based lists for rental.  So if you’re interested, please visit the site - www.media.co.uk or call me on 01382 525220.

I thought it would be useful to post some advice too, as the calls/emails I get tend to be a bit vague (to say the least).  So here are some of the issues to consider before you start.

1) Profile. It amazes me that people take the time to call/email, but haven’t a clue who they want to target!  

B2B or B2C? If B2B, then like DM, I need job titles, UK wide or specific areas, type(s) of company/ies, product to be promoted and anything else you can give me. Consumer is easier in that it’s more readily available and therefore you can be more in-depth - age, family (or not), householder, car drive, income, UK wide/specific etc etc. But do have a serious think about your target market before making that call/hit send, it’ll make all the difference.

You can’t always get as close as match as you can for DM, so the more detail the better.  DM has been around for over 30 years, email marketing for about 5.  So there’s quite a bit of catching up to do in terms of profiles and data.

2) Price.  You get what you pay for.  For some reason, people think email marketing is cheap.  It is - but the actual sentence is ’...cheaper than direct marketing’.

List prices are really varied depending on the quantity and the profile - I’ve seen B2C as low as £75/000 and B2B as high as £300/000.  Minimum orders usually apply - anything from £1K upwards. So be prepared to pay the going rate. Obviously the more data you want, the more room there is for negotiation...

3) Get the creative right.  This is where we can also help, we’ve got clients in all sectors both large and small. 

Third party lists need short, punchy messages , and the right incentive will usually help, even in the B2B sector.  Don’t expect people to read lots of text in an unexpected email (would you?). If you’ve got alot to say, put it on a landing page that they can click through to.  And landing pages can also help to make that crucial difference to response rates.

4) Test the list.  List rental can be quite a flukey area, so test the data before committing. We recommend testing a sample of 10K to give you an idea of response rates.  Sometimes responses are great, sometimes not so great - even if everything right down to date and time of the broadcast are correct. That doesn’t mean email isn’t right for you, it can come back to other things like the nature of the offer and the list.

5) Timescales. Getting the creative right is normally the time-consuming part of the activity.  It can be done in a few weeks, but some do take a couple of month. Plan your email campaign like you would any marketing activity and spend time honing it - it’ll be worth it in the end.

6) Track and report everything. You all know this, but again, the calls I get indicate that some people don’t.  If you can’t track it, how are you going to assess your ROI?

Hope this is useful. 

Charon

Account Director, MediaCo UK

With access to over 30 million opt-in email addresses from around 160 email lists, EDR are now the UK's largest email planner and buyer in terms of service breadth and volume. Our history gives us a unique insight into the comparative performance, and hence the real value of all major data sources.

Today, the agency manages email planning and buying campaigns for some of the UK's most substantial users of email marketing, including MBNA,  Capital One, Dennis Publishing, BUPA, Vernons and Brunel Franklin.

EDR's unrivalled knowledge of email list performance, substantial buying power and dedicated campaign management team ensure email campaigns meet client expectations time after time. As a responsible operator at the forefront of best practice we're also founder members of the Direct Marketing Association's Email Marketing Council and members of the Internet Advertising Bureau.

We do not charge for our services. Our fees are derived purely from commission’s payable by the list owner. EDR are also the  largest buyer of email in United Kingdom (over 10 million a week)

Contact Gary Taylor by email:

Tel: 0207 440 4380

Thanks, I got one response to this and I appreciate it.  I have since gotten delivery but found at least 75% inaccurate data, and thus far they have not been responsive to my calls and emails asking them for help and for them to get me the info we paid for and contractually agreed to.  Anyone have further experience?  Daniel I emailed you at your yahoo about your experience but didn't hear back, perhaps you can post here.

Thanks

On 00:50:23 19 September 2007 rwhanco wrote:

I'm having trouble with list quality delivery from this company and I'm curious if others have experienced the same.

On 15:40:51 15 December 2006 Optinlists wrote:

On 14:45:14 6 July 2004 charonw wrote:

Hi All

Ashley asked me to post something about this, as it seems finding good third party lists can be a problem.

We’re an online marketing agency, and we also source 3rd party lists for clients. We’ve been doing it now for about 2 years so have built up a list of reputable vendors and only supply opt-in or permission-based lists for rental.  So if you’re interested, please visit the site - www.media.co.uk or call me on 01382 525220.

I thought it would be useful to post some advice too, as the calls/emails I get tend to be a bit vague (to say the least).  So here are some of the issues to consider before you start.

1) Profile. It amazes me that people take the time to call/email, but haven’t a clue who they want to target!  

B2B or B2C? If B2B, then like DM, I need job titles, UK wide or specific areas, type(s) of company/ies, product to be promoted and anything else you can give me. Consumer is easier in that it’s more readily available and therefore you can be more in-depth - age, family (or not), householder, car drive, income, UK wide/specific etc etc. But do have a serious think about your target market before making that call/hit send, it’ll make all the difference.

You can’t always get as close as match as you can for DM, so the more detail the better.  DM has been around for over 30 years, email marketing for about 5.  So there’s quite a bit of catching up to do in terms of profiles and data.

2) Price.  You get what you pay for.  For some reason, people think email marketing is cheap.  It is - but the actual sentence is ’...cheaper than direct marketing’.

List prices are really varied depending on the quantity and the profile - I’ve seen B2C as low as £75/000 and B2B as high as £300/000.  Minimum orders usually apply - anything from £1K upwards. So be prepared to pay the going rate. Obviously the more data you want, the more room there is for negotiation...

3) Get the creative right.  This is where we can also help, we’ve got clients in all sectors both large and small. 

Third party lists need short, punchy messages , and the right incentive will usually help, even in the B2B sector.  Don’t expect people to read lots of text in an unexpected email (would you?). If you’ve got alot to say, put it on a landing page that they can click through to.  And landing pages can also help to make that crucial difference to response rates.

4) Test the list.  List rental can be quite a flukey area, so test the data before committing. We recommend testing a sample of 10K to give you an idea of response rates.  Sometimes responses are great, sometimes not so great - even if everything right down to date and time of the broadcast are correct. That doesn’t mean email isn’t right for you, it can come back to other things like the nature of the offer and the list.

5) Timescales. Getting the creative right is normally the time-consuming part of the activity.  It can be done in a few weeks, but some do take a couple of month. Plan your email campaign like you would any marketing activity and spend time honing it - it’ll be worth it in the end.

6) Track and report everything. You all know this, but again, the calls I get indicate that some people don’t.  If you can’t track it, how are you going to assess your ROI?

Hope this is useful. 

Charon

Account Director, MediaCo UK

Hi,

We are in to similar business. We provide E-mail Marketing lists across the globe. I would like to see if we can work together as partners. Please send me an e-mail if this sparks interest in your mind.

Regards,

Bob Cordell.

Absolutely!  The company says it is based in the US, but is is not.  There are several of the individuals on www.linkedin.com that are promoting their business and using this forum to build their business. 

These are the names they are under:  Optin List  aka Optin Builders

I ordered a list and was very specific that I wanted Directors and above, companies $1B and above in TX, LA, AR, OK.  They told me that the list would be hand-generated and would take a week

When I got the list, over 70% (I tested them) of the emails were undeliverables, 10% of the list was disconnected phones.  Additionally the list contained over 30% of companies that were not $1B and above and 50% of the list is Managers not the Directors and above.

They are not responding to any of my emails to correct the matter, they have changed their names and their company name

If you want PREMIUM service - I found a local person in Dallas that is wonderful